Multiplayer "Tournaments"

A forum for expert Osmos players to get in on some fun, high-level, multiplayer games!
bed ted
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby bed ted » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:50 pm

Eddy, Dave - just wanted to stop by and show my appreciation, for creating such a stunningly beautiful and wonderfully playable game in Osmos.

It's been a while since I've played, so I was absolutely thrilled to discover last week that you'd developed the multiplayer system. Amazing job, absolutely flawless as usual. I really like the revamped menu graphics also.

It is definitely a shame that opponents can be hard to find in the multiplayer. Sadly, I doubt there will ever be any significant improvement in numbers, just due to the nature of the game. I'd wager that a larger proportion of casual gamers just don't have the patience to learn to subtlety and nuance required to progress sufficiently in the game and consequently give a rewarding multiplayer experience.

For me, the only thing I'd like to see is a properly fleshed out statistics system. At the moment "levelling-up" due to raw wins accrued is somewhat meaningless look at a player's skill level.

The thing that will excite people is if they're rewarded more greatly for taking down a larger foe.
Conversely, a high ranked player would be punished for losing to a inferior player.

So, it is actually possible to drop in skill level/rank.

Instead of depicting "Wins" in the game (which also determine rank) - this could simply be changed to ahh, let's say - "Mass" (ie. Points)
"Mass" would be able to increase or decrease, and would be adjusted based on the following example equations:

EXAMPLE: Game 1
Player A 900 Mass (points)
Player B 120 Mass (points)
Player B defeats Player A

Winner divided by Loser
900/120 = 7.5

7.5 increased by factor of ten = 75
This is the bonus/punishment points based on the difference in skill level between the two players.

Player A 900-75 = 825 Mass (points)
Player B 120+75 = 195 Mass (points)

On top of the bonus/punishment points, both players should also gain/lose a single point, so that there is always a change in score after a game.
Otherwise in the event of two evenly matched players, there will be no change in score, due to zero bonus/punishment points arising.

So, after adding/deducting a single point:
Player A 824 Mass (points)
Player B 196 Mass (points)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EXAMPLE: Game 2

Player A defeats Player B

Winner divided by Loser
196/824 = 0.2379
0.2379 increased by factor of ten and rounded = 2

Player A 824+2 = 826 Mass (points)
Player B 196-2 = 194 Mass (points)

And after adding/deducting a single point (see explanation above):
Player A 827 Mass (points)
Player B 193 Mass (points)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is only fair that a much lower ranked player still loses points in Game 2, as the reward is enormous if they manage to win a game (e.g. Game 1)

A players "Rank" would be determined based on the amount of Mass (eg. once you reach 250 Mass you become "Adept").

Cheers! :D

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eddybox
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Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby eddybox » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:48 pm

Finally catching up on this thread!

@pangcp: Well, we submitted 2.2 to the App Store last week, which includes compatibility between iPhone & iPad play over Game Center. It's true that iPhone players will be at a bit of a disadvantage, but we feel the increased player-base is worth the trade off. (Pros and cons...) I also finally/recently experienced the camera jitter you mentioned. Thanks for the tip! I'll try to track it down and fix it.

@Cybxplorer: hmmm... multiplayer levels are always randomized, so each play within an arena should be different. Are you saying they're "similar-ish", or really identical from play to play?

@bed ted: The topic of ranking system is one we've been discussing at length for a while over here! It's actually a really deep subject. There are some classic/established mathematical systems out there, such as the Elo system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system), or Microsoft's TrueSkill (http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/). But there's more than just math to consider. For instance, take a look at the system that Wizards of the Coast switched to for Magic the Gathering: https://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/ ... ature/159b. They actually had an Elo-like system in place for years that penalized players for losing games (especially to a weaker player); but they found this encouraged top players to "sit on their ranking", so they decided to switch (including all the migration headaches and complaints that would entail!) to a system in which players only ever gain points. It's a super interesting article, and was a real eye-opener for us. We certainly don't want to put a complex system in place to measure ranking, only to later decide that what we originally had was better! At the end of the day we simply want to do what's best for our players, and hopefully this forum will help us figure out what that is -- so thanks for the feedback! :)

Cheers!
Eddy

bed ted
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby bed ted » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:39 am

Yes, I think the Elo system or similar, would be ideal Eddy. I've played chess in the past and Elo is definitely a rewarding enough points system.

The Planeswalker points system is really interesting - they've covered some really important points in that article. I still do like the idea though of being able to lose points/drop in ranking though.

In terms of avoiding the tendency for top players to "sit on their ranking" - correct me if I'm wrong, but this should only become relevant if they are trying to qualify for a particular event?

Nonetheless, I do like the idea that a player is rewarded a small amount, purely for participating.

ejandcc
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:29 pm

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby ejandcc » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:44 pm

If by camera jitter you mean full screen shake caused by fast movement of the other player, you should definitely NOT get rid of this as it one of the few tools available for situations where you are both tiny, the other guy is a little bigger than you, you are too small to aggressively collect mass, and your opponent is willing to take his time to do so. In other words it is a useful if unintentional "feature".

eddybox wrote:
@pangcp: Well, we submitted 2.2 to the App Store last week, which includes compatibility between iPhone & iPad play over Game Center. It's true that iPhone players will be at a bit of a disadvantage, but we feel the increased player-base is worth the trade off. (Pros and cons...) I also finally/recently experienced the camera jitter you mentioned. Thanks for the tip! I'll try to track it down and fix it.


SandyShailes
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:53 am

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby SandyShailes » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:01 am

Hi,
I am in Australia and love the multiplayer game, but wait many minutes for a game and often give up. Even worse is when I have waited so long only to get a noob who soon runs away, only to get matched up again immediately because they are the only one waiting.
But once I get a decent challenge I am hooked!
Hopefully it can get more popular therefore more players...

Sandy

bed ted
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby bed ted » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:48 pm

Haha, yes Sandy I spend a lot of time just listening to the menu music waiting for someone to pair up with me.
It's a bit of a shame with the noobs because I'm guessing they jump straight into the multiplayer, without learning the game first (in Odyssey/Arcade). So they get frustrated and leave. There's a pretty steep learning curve when you first start out.

Maybe there needs to be a recommendation built into the game, that suggests that you complete some of the single player levels first.
As it currently stands, there is little explanation of strategy when you jump into multiplayer for the first time.

bed ted
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby bed ted » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:59 pm

I'm also in Australia (Melbourne). I play in the early evening, which sadly means that most of the US folk are in bed, and Western Europe are eating their breakfast!

pangcp
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:07 am

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby pangcp » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:23 pm

Hi ejandcc, nice to see you here. We have played several times, if you remember. But recently I won't be around after my wife hide my iPad because I played too much :(

By the way, I am from Malaysia. Maybe I will meet you guys from Australia in Osmos, in the future. Are you guys using the same Osmos nick in this forum?

pangcp
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:07 am

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby pangcp » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:46 pm

ejandcc wrote:If by camera jitter you mean full screen shake caused by fast movement of the other player, you should definitely NOT get rid of this as it one of the few tools available for situations where you are both tiny, the other guy is a little bigger than you, you are too small to aggressively collect mass, and your opponent is willing to take his time to do so. In other words it is a useful if unintentional "feature".


Ejandcc has a point here. This can be a useful unintentional feature. Otherwise, the smaller guy has nothing to do but waiting to get swallowed.

I have also seen a player becoming very tiny and stay at the sharp corner (requires some skill too). The corner blocks me and my ejected mass from reaching him. So I have to block the corner and reduce my size to eventually eat him with ejected mass. Later, I met with another player using the same tactic. But when I am ejecting mass to get smaller, he unexpectedly ran away from the corner!

This situation can be avoided by using rounded corner. However, it can also be an unintentional feature :)

Vieve
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:47 pm

Re: Multiplayer "Tournaments"

Postby Vieve » Mon May 27, 2013 3:02 pm

I must be missing something very obvious here... I'm not able to be on the Net at the time of the Multiplayer tournaments so would like to watch a video of some of the play, if there is one. If there is, I don't see how to access it.


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