DRM Free???

Feedback and support for the PC version of Osmos
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Meal Worms
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Re: DRM Free???

Postby Meal Worms » Mon May 03, 2010 4:28 am

Hey folks,

Whether or not you like these numbers, they're real: at least 4/5 of players running PC games have pirated copies. For game developers, these numbers are highly unattractive -- and especially for us at Hemisphere, piracy is make-or-break for us, because we need to eat to keep making games.

So if you've got friends who haven't paid for games, tell them to stop it and pay game developers for the thousands of hours that go into making a game!

Dave

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Meal Worms
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Re: DRM Free???

Postby Meal Worms » Mon May 03, 2010 11:07 am

Hey folks,

Just as an anecdote to this conversation, torrents containing the Osmos packge files have been alive for over 2 days now, with tons of seeders.

So the Linux version of Osmos was widely pirated in about the same amount of time as the PC version (roughly 3 days after launch).

Dave

PS: Please pay for your software, music and movies.

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liamdawe
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Re: DRM Free???

Postby liamdawe » Mon May 03, 2010 3:32 pm

That's sad, have you contacted them to get it removed? Pirating $10 game software, sad...

spookas
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Re: DRM Free???

Postby spookas » Thu May 06, 2010 5:52 pm

Martoon wrote:One of the guys from Reflexive had a sidebar article in Game Developer magazine several months ago about the effect of piracy on the sales of Ricochet. They had way more people posting scores to the online leaderboard than they had sales, so they had an idea of how many sales to pirate copies there were. There was a widely available key generator for Ricochet.

They fixed the authentication method for the game, so the key generator no longer worked. On the fixed version of the game, the number of leaderboard posters was a little less than sales, so they had killed the piracy (temporarily). But their sales only increased incrementally. Based on the numbers, he calculated that about 1 out of 1000 people pirating the game will pay for it if they can't steal it. Like you mentioned, they'll just play some other pirated game instead.

Of course, for truly original, unique games (like Osmos and World of Goo), that number would probably be higher, because you just can't get the same gameplay experience from just "some other game". Even so, I like to think that they gained more sales from not having DRM than they lost to piracy.


Yes, all definitely believable. Ultimately, DRM or no-DRM is really moot because neither addresses piracy itself. DRM is an ineffective attempt to lock out pirates, while no-DRM is an ineffective attempt to garner pirates' goodwill. The root of the issue is that about 90% of gamers are douchebags who will steal something if the opportunity is available and the chances of getting caught are low.

I mean, what do we learn from this? The message I'm getting is: sell out. Don't go indie. Don't put your own money and effort into a project. Make something huge, pitch an idea to Sony, blow up your budget, do a promo tie-in with Pizza Hut, then sell a million copies of your game on a proprietary disc at $60 apiece. Then have a refreshing dip into your swimming pool filled with money.

What frustrates me more than the numbers is the attitude. The contemptuous, cynical, self-entitled attitude that folks have, that they actually deserve to get everything free. A friend of mine told me he doesn't "believe in paying for music". What does that even mean?

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Meal Worms
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Re: DRM Free???

Postby Meal Worms » Tue May 11, 2010 5:14 am

@ spookas: hah -- agreed 100%! If you find out, be sure to let me know, hey? ;-)

@ liamdawe: yeah, whenever I come across hosting or linking of pirated versions of Osmos, I get in touch with the site admins and ask them to bring it down. Most comply, some don't. Appealing to an individual's conscience and ethics sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, depending on the person.

Dave

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Re: DRM Free???

Postby End User » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:40 pm

spookas wrote:2D Boy estimates 90% of the computer versions of their game are pirated:
http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/

However, they also say that they don't believe any amount of DRM or anti-piracy measures would contribute to additional sales.

I do think DRM is a bad idea - cumbersome, irritating, and just a bad vibe anyway - but I also think there has to be a way to support independent developers of any media. 90% is a stupidly high piracy rate.


It might be 90% of the computer versions but thats people who would probably have never bought the game in the first place so you can't compare them as lost sales, thats like the record companies saying that every download is a lost sale. Yes a percentage of that 90% could have been legitimate client if there was no way to pirate the game but thats in fairy tale land. I think offering buying customers extra perks like a t-shirt or something like that would also gt more people paying for it.

spookas
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Re: DRM Free???

Postby spookas » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:38 pm

I don't think I ever did compare them to lost sales?

I'm obviously opposed to the massive corporate dimension of the mainstream games/music/media industry (cf. previous posts). Heck, I'm for a broader critique of capitalism (we'll save that for another post). But I'm also opposed to the kind of self-entitlement that makes people feel that they downright deserve whatever they want, whenever they want it, free of any contribution on their part. Whether a quarter of those 90% would have bought the game, or 2%, or none, is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned - it's the fact that most people don't care about other people's hard work that bothers me.

And seriously, I don't want an Osmos t-shirt. I love Osmos as a brilliant game, not as a fashion statement. My line of work has led me to having way too many clothes already.

KIAaze
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Re: DRM Free???

Postby KIAaze » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:32 pm

Meal Worms wrote:Hey folks,

Whether or not you like these numbers, they're real: at least 4/5 of players running PC games have pirated copies. For game developers, these numbers are highly unattractive -- and especially for us at Hemisphere, piracy is make-or-break for us, because we need to eat to keep making games.

So if you've got friends who haven't paid for games, tell them to stop it and pay game developers for the thousands of hours that go into making a game!

Dave


Why don't you add a little message when starting the game asking users to pay for the game to support you if they haven't done so?
This message could only appear at first start, or be disabled somewhere in the options, or even just appear in the credits.
That way, if somebody gets the game from somewhere without buying it from you and without knowing that it is not freeware, they might pay you if they are the kind of people willing to do so.

After all, it's quite possible to find some games as freeware, abandonware on legitimate looking sites or even just get them from friends. i.e. some people might not even be aware they are pirating a game if there is no DRM at all and they didn't get it themselves over P2P or similar.

P.S.: Personnally, I don't mind simple DRM like serials or such that much, but things like required internet connection, limited installs, etc are starting to really go too far. Another thing I really hate is region-locking and DVDs so encrypted I can't even play them on my laptop. Basically, as soon as DRM starts hurting users, it has gone too far.

P.P.S.: Thanks again for the GNU/Linux version!!! Otherwise, I wouldn't even have bought the game (I also wouldn't have pirated it). ;)

Mountain Man
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Re: DRM Free???

Postby Mountain Man » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:52 pm

themixturemedia wrote:You can find that game anywere on the net and 2D Boys lost out on tons of money because it was DRM Free

Even games that are loaded with DRM can be found all over the internet (if you know where to look). DRM does not stop piracy nor does it increase revenue. The best way to increase sales is to make your product attractive to honest customers and not attempt to make it unattractive to dishonest ones.


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