DRM Free???

Feedback and support for the PC version of Osmos
themixturemedia
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:31 pm

DRM Free???

Postby themixturemedia » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:48 pm

Hi there I was just reading that Osmos is DRM Free why would u guys do that. The reason I ask that is because anyone could put the game online and you could and lose all the revenue. I was told that is what happened to World Of Goo. You can find that game anywere on the net and 2D Boys lost out on tons of money because it was DRM Free I really hope if you guys make another game that it will be DRM. I understand that people would complain but if it kept money going to the companies to make more money I do not mind.

User avatar
liamdawe
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:16 am

Re: DRM Free???

Postby liamdawe » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:00 am

As far as i can tell they have never actually said their reasons to have the game DRM free. There are thousands of articles showing why DRM is a bad idea, most of them don't work properly and tend to lock out legitimate buyers. The new settlers game comes to mind, an entire country is having problems playing.

Also from your post it sounds like it could start a flame war, might want to be a little more careful about things you say, i hope it doesn't though i would also like to know. I cannot find any reference of the 2dboy blog or on even wikipedia about the apparent piracy problem, care to share some valid articles?

All i am going to say is if you download Osmos illegally rather than pay up the WHOPPING $10 and support Hemisphere considering they give us all 3 versions then you have problems. Please note that is in no way a dig at yourself i just don't think illegally downloading small indie titles helps anyone.

Martoon
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:34 am

Re: DRM Free???

Postby Martoon » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:43 am

Like liamdawe mentioned, DRM schemes tend to be problematic for legitimate buyers. They also don't even slow down pirates. Having DRM in a game or app doesn't prevent illicit copies from showing up on the internet; cracked versions will show up anyway. So DRM gets in the way of legitimate buyers, and doesn't get in the way of piracy, which is the direct opposite of its intended effect.

Part of the reason I bought both World of Goo and Osmos was that I appreciated the fact that I didn't have to deal with any DRM headaches.

spookas
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:45 am
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Contact:

Re: DRM Free???

Postby spookas » Sat May 01, 2010 3:51 am

2D Boy estimates 90% of the computer versions of their game are pirated:
http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/

However, they also say that they don't believe any amount of DRM or anti-piracy measures would contribute to additional sales.

I do think DRM is a bad idea - cumbersome, irritating, and just a bad vibe anyway - but I also think there has to be a way to support independent developers of any media. 90% is a stupidly high piracy rate.

User avatar
liamdawe
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:16 am

Re: DRM Free???

Postby liamdawe » Sat May 01, 2010 7:27 am

Thanks for the link clears it up a bit now.

Yeah they seem to have a high piracy rate, but as you said DRM wouldn't have stopped it and for a small indie game to include DRM and have it backfire well that could easily put them out of business. I think it is a smart move not to have it included in such small titles.

User avatar
Meal Worms
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:22 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: DRM Free???

Postby Meal Worms » Sat May 01, 2010 8:10 am

Hey folks,

Yes, Ron's estimate that piracy rate of PC software is in the 80-90% range is sadly accurate; these are the numbers we observed at Epic as well (hence in part why studios as much as possible prefer to develop games for closed systems rather than PCs). DRM is a pain in the butt for legitimate customers, and barely slows down pirates, who more than likely wouldn't have paid for the game anyway.

Hopefully what happens is that software pirates eventually grow up and/or get jobs, and will purchase legitimate copies of our titles somewhere down the line. I've certainly done this; back in the day as a 12-year-old kid with no job (and before downloadable games were a big thing -- you had to buy boxed copies in the stores), I would play copies of games from friends. Since then, though, I've gone back (now 15 years later) and purchased legitimate copies of those games from back catalogs, in an effort to make up for it ;-)

Anyway -- the other thing I'm very diligent about is calling out abuse where I see it. Whenever Osmos is listed on a torrent site, I get in touch with the webmaster and say "You're violating our copyright by promoting the distribution of this software; please take it down" and in 98% of cases, sites comply. This obviously doesn't curb peer-to-peer copying, but it makes it harder for 'casual pirates' to find the game via e.g. Google search, and it's also important to take a stand on a position you believe in and work for it if you can.

Dave

spookas
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:45 am
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Contact:

Re: DRM Free???

Postby spookas » Sat May 01, 2010 9:43 am

I kind of understand the "teenager with no job" thing but at the same time... ten bucks? Come on now.

Oh well... the world we live in...

farvardin
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 1:56 pm

Re: DRM Free???

Postby farvardin » Sat May 01, 2010 2:08 pm

Honestly if Osmos had DRM, I would certainly not have bought it.

Saying for example World of Goo "missed" 900% of their incomes because 90% of people playing it hadn't bought it is not accurate. In the case the protection would be very effective (impossible to copy), how many people would really have bought it ? Probably not more than 10-20 % in addition: if they can't access a game, they'd probably play another one, or chat on facebook.
And since those protections are never really effective, people not wanting to pay for them would problably get the game elsewhere.

I think if developpers play it fair with their users/customers, people will be more willing to pay and support their games. And more people will buy it, that is for sure.
(I've also bought World of Goo and a few others, because it's running on linux and is DRM free)

waltercool
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 11:05 am

Re: DRM Free???

Postby waltercool » Sat May 01, 2010 8:02 pm

When a game is pirated, is really good for that game, because becomes popular, the probability of buy a game is ALWAYS the same. With more users, more excepted sales.

DRM is excelent, i can install Ubuntu, then Fedora... etc and my game will works fine! Restrictions are always a bad idea for that (Spore is a big example, 3 installations max allowed per cdkey)

Hemispheregames are doing a really good job dealing with DRM Free games... a pirated game, is illegal, and you will not enjoy a pirated game as a legal purchased game.

I have UT2004 (works really bad on linux), Osmos, and World of Goo. I just enjoy the last 2 games.

Martoon
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:34 am

Re: DRM Free???

Postby Martoon » Sun May 02, 2010 8:41 pm

farvardin wrote:Saying for example World of Goo "missed" 900% of their incomes because 90% of people playing it hadn't bought it is not accurate. In the case the protection would be very effective (impossible to copy), how many people would really have bought it ? Probably not more than 10-20 % in addition: if they can't access a game, they'd probably play another one, or chat on facebook.

I'd say 10-20% is high.

One of the guys from Reflexive had a sidebar article in Game Developer magazine several months ago about the effect of piracy on the sales of Ricochet. They had way more people posting scores to the online leaderboard than they had sales, so they had an idea of how many sales to pirate copies there were. There was a widely available key generator for Ricochet.

They fixed the authentication method for the game, so the key generator no longer worked. On the fixed version of the game, the number of leaderboard posters was a little less than sales, so they had killed the piracy (temporarily). But their sales only increased incrementally. Based on the numbers, he calculated that about 1 out of 1000 people pirating the game will pay for it if they can't steal it. Like you mentioned, they'll just play some other pirated game instead.

Of course, for truly original, unique games (like Osmos and World of Goo), that number would probably be higher, because you just can't get the same gameplay experience from just "some other game". Even so, I like to think that they gained more sales from not having DRM than they lost to piracy.


Return to “Osmos PC (Win/Mac/Linux)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests